CWA Innovator Spotlight: Components of IoT in Water Tech

[00:00:00] Emily Hamilton: I am so excited to get started on today's April edition of the CWA. Innovator Spotlight. Today we're gonna be talking about components of IoT infrastructure. Just a couple of housekeeping items right up top. We're gonna have a couple of polls asked for the audience today that we'd like to encourage you to engage in.

[00:00:36] Emily Hamilton: And during the panel discussion of our event today, there'll be an opportunity to field questions from the audience. So if you'd like to use the q and a feature at the bottom of your screen, you can type in your question and we'll try to answer those live during the panel discussion.

[00:01:01] Emily Hamilton: All right, and without further ado, I'd like to just hand over the reins to Brad Lane from Badger Meter, who is today's sponsor and the sponsor for the larger webinar series of the Innovator Spotlight. Brad.

[00:01:20] Brad Lane: Hey, thank you, Emily. Yep. Just a couple words. Welcome again, everybody. Thanks for joining today's topic, I'm looking forward to it.

[00:01:29] Brad Lane: Badger Meter has been a huge user of IO ot, and you can make an argument that it has helped us gain a lot of market share. So, how, how this has helped, how, how this has helped Badger in the past is we were one of the big three meter companies, rewind about 10 years ago. We've been around for a hundred years.

[00:01:50] Brad Lane: but what we sell are advanced meters, smart water meters. To connect those meters, you need a network. You need an infrastructure. And so Badger was one of the first meter manufacturers to leverage IoT back in 2014. and it has gone gangbusters since we have over 2200 utilities that have chosen our cellular A MI network.

[00:02:13] Brad Lane: A MI stands for Advanced Meter Infrastructure. Think of that as the network that connects all these meters. The IoT technology that we chose to deploy. Or that we currently deploy today is LTEM. It is cellular based. And now we've seen a complete shift where all of our competitors have launched a very similar product.

[00:02:32] Brad Lane: So, I'm not gonna go in deep there, but when you think of it, you know this, if you see that picture there, that's one of my colleagues. This is a slide we use and traditionally, when you put up a fixed collector system to run an MR or a MI system in the water industry. You gotta deal with permits, you gotta deal with leasing, you gotta deal with installing collectors.

[00:02:54] Brad Lane: it's a lot of rf. And so now when you leverage that IoT, when you look at that, I mean it's literally an MI system. You can hold it in your hand. There's a smart meter to the left of your screen, and on the right side. There is a very cool, cellular endpoint. There's a lot of technology that goes in there, but, one of the components that are in that endpoint is an LTM module, that makes that system go.

[00:03:18] Brad Lane: So now utilities, instead of doing a manual read or a drive-by read where they're getting one read a day, they are getting 15 minute interval reads four times a day. They're getting 96 reads a day, which is a whole nother topic that goes into big data, but. With that being said, let's hand it back to our, our stars of today's, podcast here.

[00:03:39] Brad Lane: Thanks, Emily.

[00:03:43] Emily Hamilton: Thanks so much, Brad. We're really excited about the innovations that Badger Meter continues to work on, and also the partnership with CWA, and our continued opportunities to work together. So, without further ado, we'll dive right in. My name is Emily Hamilton. I'm the. Deal flow analyst for the Cleveland Water Alliance and today's agenda is going to be about a couple of the ways that CWA integrates IoT infrastructure into our work.

[00:04:18] Emily Hamilton:Presentation from our two innovators today, Sen arc and freeboard, and the ways they're innovating within the space. And then we're gonna have a conversation to talk a little bit about the challenges and opportunities in IoT infrastructure and how it's facilitating more robust sensing and monitoring in the industry.

[00:04:49] Emily Hamilton: Many of you may be familiar with Cleveland Water Alliance. We're an economic development nonprofit located in Cleveland, but we work globally with any industry or any water players focused on surface fresh water and the issues that face the water industry.

[00:05:14] Emily Hamilton: And we work with industrial partners, utility partners, research institutions and innovators, providing solutions to all of those end users.

[00:05:29] Emily Hamilton: IoT infrastructure is critical to the programs that CWA have created. We have 7,700 square miles of telecommunications coverage that we've built across the shoreline of Lake Erie that enable us to deploy over 200 different. sensing and monitoring devices within the Great Lake and. Support the entire lifecycle of IoT infrastructure.

[00:06:06] Emily Hamilton: That may include the hardware that goes into the lake, the, like we're mentioning today, the telecommunications, pieces, parts, data loggers, automation, things that are needed for biofouling solutions. Data hosting to display all of the information that's being collected and also the integration of AI and machine learning.

[00:06:41] Emily Hamilton: This larger series is focused on rapid detection, IoT sensing and monitoring, and the integration of machine learning, but. All of that is possible because of the components of IoT infrastructure, and these are the elements that enable these devices to work, such as data loggers, telemetry platforms, data systems, et cetera.

[00:07:11] Emily Hamilton: Our panelists today are Ken Gibbons, and from Freeboard Technology and Paul Martin Schwartz from SenArch, and I'm going to be handing the reins over to Paul from S Ark to talk a little bit about their solutions within the space and how they're innovating.

[00:07:38] Paul Martin Schwartz: Thank you. Thank you, Emily. SenArch is a spin-out company from the Danish Technical University in Copenhagen. And we have, we have been working on how to solve the, the, you could take technological issue of, being able to power. connectivity, devices and infrastructure for IO OT using a renewable energy source, such as solar power.

[00:08:28] Paul Martin Schwartz: So we're based at the technical University of Denmark, and we are working on providing autonomous and off-grid, communication infrastructure. Powered entirely by solar and, we have, a small but very, capable team. Combined, you know, 60 years of industry experience from telecommunications IoT software and electronics design, development.

[00:09:01] Paul Martin Schwartz: And, we have come out with a product which we call the ARC one. and the, the, the solution is, is, is meant for, rapid deployment, easy to use,and, and, you know, completely modular in, in, in that design so that you can install it in many different environments and different situations depending on the environment.

[00:09:39] Paul Martin Schwartz: You know, the circumstances and what it enables in short is IoT anywhere. So basically, you can. Install our gateway outside as long as it has a clear view to the sky and, and, and the sun. You can build a network for IoT devices anywhere. And the issues that we address is, the basic

[00:10:14] Paul Martin Schwartz: Necessity or the, the historical requirement for, grid power. So typically that's an issue when you're trying to do connectivity in, in nature, trying to draw or, you know, harvest data from sensors that are deployed in nature. This reliance on grid power is going to be a factor because with no power, there's typically or historically, no connectivity.

[00:10:50] Paul Martin Schwartz: and the cost of deployment, in urban areas is also, an issue for our customers being able to deploy gateways on rooftops. in urban areas is something that has been, that, that's a, that's a common, common thing, but, but actually, you know, pulling cables and having, you know, contractors, you know, build the infrastructure and putting up submeters for, for power and all these kind of, you know, tasks, bring the budget, to a point where it actually.

[00:11:34] Paul Martin Schwartz: exceeds what our device costs. So many of our customers are actually deploying these, snar gateways as a cost saving measure, making things more efficient. And then, you know, the conventional infrastructure that typically needs to be plugged in is also really expensive. Sometimes impossible because, you know, there simply is not an outlet in, in, in, in, within the, within the, the, the, you know, doable, range.

[00:12:17] Paul Martin Schwartz: So our solution can deploy, it can be deployed anywhere. It enables the capturing of important data. It harvests the sun, the solar power, it puts it onto a battery, and the battery then energizes the system. And so there are no cables involved. And what we've done is we've, we've, we've reduced the energy consumption, the draw of the system to an absolute minimum.

[00:12:51] Paul Martin Schwartz: Without losing performance, which then equates to, or you could say, translates into very stable operation, all year round. Even in the Nordics, a typical scenario looks like this, where you have the sensors on the left side that are communicating wirelessly with our gateway, and the gateway then relays that data to the cloud.

[00:13:18] Paul Martin Schwartz: either using. A cellular network or satellite or wifi and, and then, you know, this data is then sent to the user and the user's data space where it becomes actionable insight and, and value to the, to the customer.

[00:13:43] Paul Martin Schwartz: This is an example of an installation. We've designed a tripod. To complement the, the actual gateway solution so that it's possible for our customers to install it on areas, in areas where there is no wall or roof or a pole existing. So the tripod makes it really easy. you can stage everything at your warehouse or your shop, loaded into your van or your truck.

[00:14:17] Paul Martin Schwartz: Drive it out to the location, install it within a half an hour and you're done. But you can also install the entire thing on site and it, it, basically means minimal site preparation. So that was a little bit, a little bit about sen a and I apologize for the technical challenges.Again, my name is Paul Schwartz and my contact details are below.

[00:14:43] Paul Martin Schwartz: Please reach out if you have any questions or need any help with connectivity. Thanks.

[00:14:52] Emily Hamilton: Thank you so much for that presentation, Paul, and I am excited to dive into some questions about the technology as well. From here we're gonna be passing. Diving back into the presentation and passing it along to Ken Gibbons from Freeboard Technology.

[00:15:10] Emily Hamilton: Ken,

[00:15:12] Ken Gibbons: thank you Emily. Are you, is everyone able to hear me?

[00:15:16] Emily Hamilton: Yes, we can hear you. Great.

[00:15:18] Ken Gibbons: Thank you. Great. My name's Ken Gibbons. I'm an environmental scientist with Freeboard Technology, and I just wanted to give a brief overview of what we do and then we can kind discuss more into the panel. freeboard Technologies, a subsidiary of Lim Tech and Free Boards focused on the development of environmental sensing systems.

[00:15:42] Ken Gibbons: So Freeboard is supported by four key staff with Ed Hamey being our president, Greg Re and Zach Gordon, providing the kind of technical expertise to get these sensors running and operational deployed. And then I help. with the kind of client interface, role administration, and helping develop or design some of these sensor systems.

[00:16:06] Ken Gibbons: We also have probably 12 plus limbo tech staff that come in to support us in various roles and bring in different skill sets throughout, kind of the three plus years we've been working as a company. You go to the next slide. So. Freeboard can be thought of as a technology integrator. So we help design and build environmental sensing systems that can kind of be tailored to your monitoring program and research needs.

[00:16:36] Ken Gibbons: So this complicated slide can just be thought of as a way to visualize, there's tons of different options as you're working your way through developing a sensor system. So the columns can be all the different categories that you need to consider, and each icon or image throughout the rows are just to show various options, and we have a lot of expertise using the technology, setting it up, deploying it, and then helping create the online architecture so you can ultimately view and store the data.

[00:17:14] Ken Gibbons: you go to the next slide. So through that we've done a variety of projects in all different sectors. So the top left's probably a familiar photo from earlier in our presentation, but we helped deploy a war WAN network across the Ohio Coast in partnership with the Cleveland water lines. And the top right is this map showing the coverage.

[00:17:39] Ken Gibbons: The bottom left image is kind of obscured, but we. Build and maintain a network of probably 20 plus buoys across the Great Lakes. The center image showing all the different circuit boards is just to highlight some of them. Experience we have with all different options and new technologies that we're, you know, consistently testing out to see how they'll work in the environment and how we can be used in different sensing systems.

[00:18:08] Ken Gibbons: And then the bottom right is showing kind of the building process of getting 'em all staged and ready to go before they head out into the environment. Next slide. One thing we've been doing more of lately is what I'll call small batch manufacturing. So this allows, you know, when you get to a certain quantity, which you know, I'm gonna say 10 plus 50 plus units, you can start customizing things and you're at a large enough quantity where you can get better discounts on ordering parts and custom things manufactured for enclosures.

[00:18:48] Ken Gibbons: So the first example on the left is a set of data loggers we built for the Lake Erie Aquatic Research Network. We were able to use the data logger they preferred that has an open source. platform and then design and build this custom enclosure and some other parts that really house the data logger so it can be deployed in wetlands across Ohio.

[00:19:16] Ken Gibbons: you know, once we, we built around a hundred of these, maybe a hundred plus. and once you get to that quantity, we were able to have, you know, some of the connector holes and you see where the antennas are coming out, you know. Precut in manufacturing, and this ultimately starts to save on cost and drive down the price of producing these custom loggers.

[00:19:41] Ken Gibbons: The middle version. The middle example is a set of water level data, logger water level sensors that we built. We have around 50 of these deployed in southeast Michigan at different agricultural locations, and the benefit there is this one was a solar powered option that was lightweight and easy to install on different bridges and culverts.

[00:20:06] Ken Gibbons: The final example on the far right was a bit more sophisticated. These are streamside monitoring stations, so enclosed in each one of those boxes is a refrigerated isco. It also has solar and battery power to power the isco. And on the right side in that gray box is an online nutrient sensor. And also integrated into this is the data logger and cellular network.

[00:20:36] Ken Gibbons: So you're able to access these remotely to trigger the ESCO for sampling or to change some of the parameters on the nutrient set analyzer. We built around 10 of these, which are deployed in southeast Michigan. And you know, being able to build these in a batch really helped where we could customize some of the features, so that made it easier for that specific project.

[00:21:04] Ken Gibbons: With that being said, you know, now that this kind of design we have, it's still applicable to other projects, and most of these are built using off the shelf components with some. Custom manufacturing needed to kind of integrate them all together. So I think the next slide, I think is the closing. Oh, one more on going from the hardware side to the online side.

[00:21:31] Ken Gibbons: We can also create a dashboard that helps meet the needs of what the end user, how they wanna visualize the data. So the far left image is our Port Sheldon Buoy, which is in Southern Wake Michigan, and it's supported by a Steelheaders organization. And in this layout, users can, you know, log in with their phone.

[00:21:57] Ken Gibbons: To our website, which is data freeboard tech, and see what are the current conditions out on the lake. And that can help them make a decision if they want to go out and go fishing that day. One graphic that both fishermen and water utilities find very helpful is,The one on the right, which highlights the water temperature down the water column.

[00:22:23] Ken Gibbons: So for people fishing, they can help see, you know, what is the water temperature and maybe adjust where they're setting their lures. and for water treatment plants, especially in areas where there's stratification, they can see what's the thickness of the hypo limon and you know, or are we starting to get stratification?

[00:22:46] Ken Gibbons: So being able to kind of customize the data interface, what outputs users are seeing really helps them. either do active management or for their own research purposes, being able to graph and maintain a network of sensors. And, I think one more slide and yeah, thanks for having me present today. I'm looking forward to the panel discussion.

[00:23:15] Emily Hamilton: Thanks so much, Ken. and Paul, both of those presentations were a really good foundation for understanding,The types of innovations and technologies that you're adding to the space in order to facilitate some of these IoT sensing and monitoring, activities and beyond in many cases. I have a question right off the bat from the audience related to the presentation that you just did.

[00:23:46] Emily Hamilton: Ken, can you remind everyone where they can access the public data that Freeboard is providing?

[00:23:54] Ken Gibbons: So you can go to Data dot Freeboard Tech and you can sign up for a free account. Or if you click there's a stations link, you should be able to access the public Facing Data dashboards.

[00:24:11] Emily Hamilton: And regarding the data logger that you were talking about, are those built by Freeboard or are they off the shelf devices?

[00:24:23] Ken Gibbons: Usually the, I'd say the part of the data logger is an off the shelf component. And we pick data loggers based on, you know, what's the, what kind of sensors are going to be used, what features do we want to have, and possibly other limitations like space, power, andWhat environment this is going to be deployed in.

[00:24:51] Ken Gibbons: So we've used a variety of bloggers and we have different options that we're comfortable using that we choose based on a variety of factors.

[00:25:04] Emily Hamilton: Wonderful. Thanks Ken. And then Paul, before we get too far away from your presentation, there was a question also related to what you were talking about. How long can the system go between charges and a low or no sunlight situation?

[00:25:23] Paul Martin Schwartz: Yes. So depending on the temperature, we can. We can run on battery alone, with no sun for between 25 and 30 days.

[00:25:43] Emily Hamilton: Excellent. Thanks Paul. This is the question for both of you. And so despite the fact that a lot of IoT enabled devices are not a new concept to consumers, I do believe that the way that they're being utilized within the water industry can be very new to end users. What are some of the challenges around educating your buyers about what's possible through the use of their technology or through the use of your technology?

[00:26:19] Emily Hamilton: And why don't we start out with you, Paul?

[00:26:23] Paul Martin Schwartz: Sure. one of the things that we typically, uh. Discuss with customers is, you know, the, the getting, you know, getting away from the habitual, thought process or logic that everything needs to be grid powered, and that it is actually possible to power telecommunications or data communications equipment.

[00:26:52] Paul Martin Schwartz: and, and, and network components on, for instance, solar power. So those are typically the starting points and, and, the, the, the, you know, the, the, some of the constraints, that we, that we try to avoid, in, in, in, in the thought process.

[00:27:18] Emily Hamilton: Wonderful. And I'm sure that that can be. A bit of a lift because when people think about IoT enabled technology, they're often coming from a point of view from their experience with it. Yes. Which is going to be very grid based. Of course. Yes.

[00:27:36] Paul Martin Schwartz: Exactly. And what we just saw yesterday in Spain, Portugal, and Southern France where the entire grid was out, that that brings.

[00:27:49] Paul Martin Schwartz: you know, it, it brings a new perspective on how dependent we are on grid power and, and also, you know, how, how important the internet is because it was, it was interesting, I, I I, I, I, I, I watched the news and there was an interview with a young lady, who said, you know, she actually used internet as the first thing she was missing, and then grid power as the secondary.

[00:28:17] Paul Martin Schwartz: So it is actually for many people, more important to have internet than electricity. And so, so you know, enabling telecommunications, networks, with renewable energy sources is actually, something that I think is both an interesting challenge, but also something that we will see. in the future.

[00:28:46] Paul Martin Schwartz: More of

[00:28:49] Emily Hamilton: thanks, Paul. And then Ken, same question for you. What are some of the challenges around educating end users? What you're capable of?

[00:29:00] Ken Gibbons: The most productive interactions are ones where we, you know, have a conversation about. What, what environmental phenomenon or parameter are you trying to measure?

[00:29:13] Ken Gibbons: And the more we can understand your monitoring program and ultimate. Goals is when we can start tailoring, you know, what, what options are out there and what best suits your needs. And a lot of times people are open to, you know, a variety of sensors, data loggers, and as Paul's mentioning too, power options.

[00:29:34] Ken Gibbons: When you kind of can start pointing out some pros and cons of each, each option, and then come up with a solution that works best for them. Mm-hmm.

[00:29:45] Emily Hamilton: This is a question from the audience, but I think that follows up your answer really nicely. Ken, can you tell us some of the parameters that your systems are monitoring?

[00:29:58] Ken Gibbons: It feels endless at times because, you know, a lot of times if there's a specific parameter you're interested in, we can find a sensor that's measuring that, but most commonly we're measuring. water, common water quality parameters like turbidity, chlorophyll, blue-green algae, pH ORP, temperature, and probably more than I'm forgetting.

[00:30:27] Ken Gibbons: and atmospheric measurements like wind direction, wind speed, air temperature, relative humidity, and solar radiation. But, you know, we've integrated acoustic Doppler sensors to look at the flow of water. We're working with online soluble reactive phosphorous sensors, so a lot of times if there's a, you know, reliable sensor available on the market, we're able to integrate it into the system.

[00:31:00] Emily Hamilton: And are your systems only intended for environmental sensing or are they applicable to stormwater, wastewater, distribution systems, et cetera?

[00:31:10] Ken Gibbons: Yeah, so they can be, they can move around to different systems. One project I'm working with is installing level sensors within sewers by CSO Outfalls, so they can see when, the.

[00:31:26] Ken Gibbons: Water level is going over the weir and, and outfall happening, and we've kind of set up a dashboard so they have large dots that are, you know, green when it's not close to overflowing yellow, when it's getting closer and red when it's going over. It should have included a picture of that, but it's really hard, like it's really hard to take a photo in a sewer so I don't really have a good visual of how that setup looks.

[00:31:54] Ken Gibbons: That's, I guess actually too, that brings up another point of, you know, underground in a sewer, there's no solar power, so we had to switch to battery power for those. But you know, just different environments have kind of different demands.

[00:32:13] Paul Martin Schwartz: Hmm. I've actually, can, we, we've seen some sensors that, that harvest.

[00:32:20] Paul Martin Schwartz: the heat from, from, from heating pipes.

[00:32:25] Ken Gibbons: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:26] Paul Martin Schwartz: You know, from, from, from heating systems. So, if you just need, you know, enough power to, to, to, to drive the sensor, then, some of these technologies are, are, becoming more available and more, you know, attainable. Yeah.

[00:32:47] Paul Martin Schwartz: That's great. It's quite interesting. Yeah.

[00:32:52] Emily Hamilton: Thanks so much for that. Both Paul and Ken. I think this is a good question for you, Paul. it's from the audience and I think it speaks to the decisions that you've made while setting up your system and company. But there are so many standards for mature and available networks. Why do you think so many companies are building them proprietary?

[00:33:21] Paul Martin Schwartz: I, I would, I would try to argue that, well, I, I would like to argue that, the companies that are working in IoT are moving increasingly away from these proprietary connectivity networks, standards and protocols simply because. Things, you know, technologies like Laura Wan and the cellular networks, are becoming so common and so ubiquitous.

[00:34:03] Paul Martin Schwartz: But, but, but I think, you know, it all depends on the application. So if you are, if you're working with a, with a,A sensor or technology or some kind of network topology that is, that is very, you could say, unique or, or, or, has some very, critical requirements, marginal requirements, then sometimes it's necessary to work with proprietary technology.

[00:34:41] Paul Martin Schwartz: But I think nine outta 10 times. We are either talking, thi, you know, technologies like Lo Wan, narrowband, I-O-T-L-T-M, or you know, or similar, you know, standardized technologies. The LO WAN technology is governed by the LO alliance. and, and the cellular networks are, are. Typically, you know, things like 4G and 5G LTE standards that are governed by the 3G GP.

[00:35:20] Paul Martin Schwartz: so, there are standardization bodies behind these technologies. And, and this, you can also see on the chip set costs per unit cost of the chip sets are, at a level where it's. It's clear that there's a huge ecosystem and a huge val, you know, value chain behind it. You know, creating the economies of scale.

[00:35:47] Paul Martin Schwartz: So, I would argue that we are moving away from that proprietary, network situation.

[00:36:00] Emily Hamilton: And just as a clarifying question, I guess. Could you define what a proprietary network means to you? What defines the piece of it that makes it proprietary?

[00:36:17] Paul Martin Schwartz: Absolutely. I mean, when, when we talk about proprietary networks, we're talking about networks, technology stacks that are inherently connected to, a certain product or a certain brand.

[00:36:34] Paul Martin Schwartz: and that where, where you can't interoperative you, you can't interoperate that brand's technology with somebody else's technology. So there's, there's, you know, there's a, there's obviously some kind of vendor lock-in in place that prohibits you from connecting your device. That is proprietary with an open standards based technology.

[00:37:03] Paul Martin Schwartz: So that is, that is what I feel is, is the definition of a proprietary technology. But I, I, I, you know, I'm not an expert, but I think, you know, if you, if you kind of comply with the open standards, the OC model, for instance, when it comes to networking, then I think you're, you're on the right side of. the, standardization and, and, and, and, and a non-proprietary technology.

[00:37:35] Emily Hamilton: That's really helpful, Paul. Thanks. I think we just wanted to kind of triangulate where we were in the conversation, in terms of. Network Pro. Yeah. This next question is for you Ken. So, part of Free Board's work is to assemble a range of third party technologies into a system that will solve a specific problem and then also assemble it to suit the environmental conditions that it will be in.

[00:38:06] Emily Hamilton: And what do you think are some of the key innovations that Freeboard has? Created while, while doing that process.

[00:38:18] Ken Gibbons: Yeah. And I think we're still developing some of the innovations we've been able to do, but I think it's, our experience is the key. Uh. The benefit is, you know, we've worked with many of these sensors.

[00:38:33] Ken Gibbons: We, you know, in many cases we're also working to deploy and maintain these sensors so we kind of know how they act, in the environment. What are some weak points and what are some challenges with working with them?

[00:38:54] Emily Hamilton: As someone who has worked with Lim Tech and Freeboard, and you specifically can, I can speak to the benefit of that expertise and a lot of this conversation feels very, I. Easy and straightforward when we're talking about it from a theoretical standpoint, but when you are outside in an environment and you need to consider all of the conditions necessary for a successful deployment and all of the various kind of factors that can make it go wrong, that experience is so critical for success.

[00:39:34] Ken Gibbons: Um hmm. One thing to add on too is you, I like to think about what's the future goals of the. Research project or just the organization. So, you know, you may be monitoring at this one location currently, but you know, is there a need to monitor, move that later on when your current project ends to a different area.

[00:39:58] Ken Gibbons: And that can help tailor some decision zones. You know, maybe you want the enclosure to be a little more rugged if you, you know, if this first inland pond will eventually go out on a lake or things like that.

[00:40:13] Emily Hamilton: Absolutely. I think that this dovetails nicely with a question that I have for you, Paul, about the S ARC technology.

[00:40:23] Emily Hamilton: Okay. And when you're looking at various different outdoor environments that can get pretty extreme outside of just access to sunlight or, or low light conditions, can you talk a little bit about. What you're doing to ensure that the technology is rugged enough to withstand various climates and conditions.

[00:40:47] Paul Martin Schwartz: Sure. So we designed everything ground-up from the perspective of being outside. So everything from our housings, our, our cabinets, to the metalworks that, you know, that go into producing our. installation frames, the, the mounting, the mounting equipment. Everything has been kind of, made from the perspective of, needing to survive at least, you know, seven to 10 years in, in the outdoor environment.

[00:41:27] Paul Martin Schwartz: this is what we promise our customers, and, and we have. We've had everything from electronics to the choice of batteries, the choice of antennas, cables, enclosures. All these things have been, you know, detailed, gone through, you know, run through with, with the vendors, the different suppliers to make sure that we have.

[00:42:00] Paul Martin Schwartz: The right, materials that, that can, that can withstand, the environment, but also the mechanical, robustness that we need, to, to, to, to, to, to provide that, that, lifetime, of, of, of, operation. So we're, you know, I can go on and on about, you know. IP 67 and different polycarbonates that we use that are UV resistant, the cables that are, have the right specifications.

[00:42:38] Paul Martin Schwartz: But, but, from a design point of view, this has always been, a criteria that we base our decisions on, that it needs to live outside.

[00:42:51] Emily Hamilton: And so for instance, Paul, are the auxiliary components that you're talking about, the cables, et cetera, are the same ones that you're using in Sub-Saharan Africa, the ones that you're also using in the winter in Denmark?

[00:43:08] Paul Martin Schwartz: pretty much. Pretty much, yes. I mean, the D the difference is really. That, for instance, on the cables, what we hear is that when they get cold in, in, you know, in, in your area in the winter or in, in Scandinavia, they get really, really, rigid. I mean, they, they, you can't, they're not very good at bending.

[00:43:36] Paul Martin Schwartz: so, so, but in the heat they get, they get soft again. But, but they are, you know. They have the ratings and they are designed, the, the material, the plastics is of an, of a, you know, of a outdoor grade, that, that can withstand, the sun, but also the cold, the, you know, the, the, the freezing temperatures and, and so, so yeah, that's a great question.

[00:44:06] Paul Martin Schwartz: But, but yes, we, it is the same, the same grade of cable that we use both in cold and hot climates. Yes.

[00:44:17] Emily Hamilton: Thanks Paul. We have another question from the audience. So, Brad from Badger Meter talked a little bit about their I OT network decisions, and Paul, center, talked about the utilization of Lo wan.

[00:44:33] Emily Hamilton: Ken, can you talk a little bit about the different types of telemetry that you're using for different applications and why?

[00:44:42] Ken Gibbons: Yeah, I think the three main types of telemetry we use are cellular, war wan and satellite. and it just depends on honestly, what's available in the area is a big consideration.

[00:45:00] Ken Gibbons: So the buoy even near the center of Lake Erie, off the shore of Cleveland, I think about. 10 to 15 miles offshore, so there's not a cellular network there. and probably not high on the priority list to get that area covered by the, for the cell networks. So, you know, we have, I think the buoy actually has both satellite and war wan on it and wore a win on it.

[00:45:29] Ken Gibbons: Just for some redundancy, but we installed a war wind gateway on top of a very tall building in Cleveland that can reach out and collect the data that way. there's also some considerations for like, if you have a very high density. Of sensors. You know, I think you think of this like a smart city network.

[00:45:49] Ken Gibbons: you know, war WAN can be good there. So you can have a bunch of small sensors go into a single gateway and then that gateway being on the roof can, you know, transmit through cellular or I think in Paul's presentation too, you talked about wifi or other options of how to send that out. and.

[00:46:09] Ken Gibbons: Cellular's great because the network's kind of already built. It's very reliable. Well, for the most part. So, that's another option that we commonly use, is just to tap into that. It can be a little more expensive and a little more power consuming, but that's one where, I think you have to kind of get into the details to make that determination of which option you'd like to go to.

[00:46:40] Emily Hamilton: Understood. I think we have time for one more audience question, and it's a fairly specific one. We'll start with you Paul. What are your preferred off the shelf Laura Wan boards? and do you have a recommendation on a good starter Laura? Gateway?

[00:47:00] Paul Martin Schwartz: Gateway? Wow. Well, I would say that my engineers are the best in the world of building.

[00:47:09] Paul Martin Schwartz: AOR wan board. number two is Ken Gibbons and his team. But, you know, we're very close. We're, we're, you know, we're head to head there, but we're, we're focused on the gateway, board. And Ken is, is, is more specialized on the sensor board. So I would say, you know, with the question, I would say, um.

[00:47:34] Paul Martin Schwartz: Freeboard is, is, has, has a really good shot at being number one. And then I would say that there's a Swiss company, called, decent Lab. They make an excellent device that converts like an RS 4 85, or Modbus, signal. Into Lo Wan, and that's a very easy way of turning some type of sensor or meter into a lo wan message.

[00:48:12] Paul Martin Schwartz: So that's, that's kind of an off the shelf, product that is easy to integrate. The last part of your question was about gateways. I would, you know, I would argue that. It really depends on whether it's an outdoor and indoor gateway. if it's an indoor gateway, you know it, they're a dime a dozen.

[00:48:38] Paul Martin Schwartz: and I would say that the curl lengths are great. You know, the, yeah, I mean the, uh.

[00:48:53] Paul Martin Schwartz: Yeah, it really depends. But, I would say that it's very much a commodity product when it comes to outdoor gateways. I clearly think that ours is the best 'cause it uses so little power that you can't even register it. So even if you want it to put it to grid power. You just needed to feed it with a 12 volt power supply and you would have probably one of the best outdoor gateways on the market.

[00:49:22] Paul Martin Schwartz: That's my impression.

[00:49:26] Emily Hamilton: Well, that was a nice opportunity to kind of plug both freeboard and cen ARC's, benefits and innovations. Ken, do you have anything to add to that?

[00:49:36] Ken Gibbons: Not much. You know, I hate to totally dodge the question, but it's really hard to just speak in kind of broad terms on it and Paul did an excellent job on that.

[00:49:48] Ken Gibbons: Yo, it's like. There's so many options. There's so many, you know, there's variables, you know, honestly, some of it's like your budget, what are you going to do with it? And things like that. That just to, just to kind of blanketly endorse, like, you know, say, ah, I'll just buy, buy this particular product. I would, I struggled to do that, so, but yeah.

[00:50:12] Ken Gibbons: But no, Paul, Paul did a great job of highlighting some commonly used brands and things like that, so, mm-hmm.

[00:50:20] Emily Hamilton: So, something that the people in the, the audience on the call may not know is that Paul and Ken and myself have actually had the opportunity to meet each other in Ann Arbor and Toledo for a testbed deployment of the Cent arc system through the CWA test bed that we collaborate with Freeboard and Limb Tech on.

[00:50:44] Emily Hamilton: So since you've had the opportunity to work with each other before, I wanted to give the opportunity to, to ask each other any questions that you may have.

[00:50:55] Paul Martin Schwartz: Sure. So Ken, question for you. What is your impression? You know, you're, you're, you have a lot more experience, in, in the deployment of.

[00:51:12] Paul Martin Schwartz: Sensors in, in the, in the watershed environment and on the buoys. What is, what is the, the, what is the main challenge when it comes to connectivity? If we isolate this to the Laura Wan gateway? What is, what is your number one challenge?

[00:51:37] Ken Gibbons: I think the hardest part on connectivity. Is in this kind of planning stage, when you're unsure of the exact location, something's going to be deployed. And you know, for some of these Laura maps that exist, a lot of times they're estimated coverages and based on data, you know, publicly available data, you know, we had, and you know, things.

[00:52:08] Ken Gibbons: Change. You know, you can get, you can do all this satellite scouting and all of a sudden realize your sensor's going to be behind, you know, some giant temporary structure or something that's shielding it, so, mm-hmm. Yeah, that's one. That's, that, that can be challenging and you know, I mean, I guess that's one nice part about why moved your gateway to, in the middle of a wetland.

[00:52:33] Ken Gibbons: You know, if you were using Laura land sensors and you didn't have coverage there. Like you can't run power to the middle of a wet, you know, you're kind of out in the middle of nowhere. So that's to me where, where you start really getting connectivity challenges. That's one of the benefits of war WAN is you can build a network.

[00:52:55] Ken Gibbons: You can't put up your own cell tower if you don't have cell at a location, but, right.

[00:53:02] Emily Hamilton: Awesome. Thank you both so much for sharing your knowledge with us today. We're we're at time, so I'm gonna go ahead and wrap up. I'd just like to let the audience know that we will be forwarding along the slides along with a.

[00:53:22] Emily Hamilton: along with a recording of today's webinar for review and that will contain Ken and Paul's information if you have any additional questions that we didn't have time to get to today. And thank you both for your time and expertise. As a reminder, this discussion focused on the components of outdoor and rugged environmental applications, and as we continue our spotlight series.

[00:53:49] Emily Hamilton: We will be covering a broader range of applications, as, particularly with our special spotlight that features Badger Meter, our sponsor for this series, and also high-end considerations, rapid detection machine learning and AI and beyond. So please stay tuned and look out for the next. opportunity to engage with us on this webinar series.

[00:54:15] Emily Hamilton: Again, my sincerest gratitude to you both and, thanks to the audience as well and have a wonderful day everyone.

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